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FACTS on U.S. gun-ownership; gun violence
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TOPIC: FACTS on U.S. gun-ownership; gun violence
#21903
FACTS on U.S. gun-ownership; gun violence 1 Year, 5 Months ago Karma: 261
Recently, I posted a piece about the 'heroic' sniper who was gunned down. He survived four "tours of duty" in the U.S. military; but couldn't SURVIVE living in the U.S. gun-culture. All the guns in the world, and the greatest expertise in using those guns couldn't save him.

The only thing which could have saved this Assassin would have been if the Gun Nut who shot him had had his weapon(s) taken away from him. It was obviously a very powerful anecdote, but an anecdote nonetheless. And as I regularly remind people from an analytical standpoint; anecdotal evidence is one of the weakest forms of "proof".

However, an under-the-weather Earl slipped me a link to some AGGREGATE data on these issues -- i.e. the Big Picture -- and that "big picture" is very, very clear. There are simply too many telling statistics in the piece below to even summarize them all; so I'll pick out just a couple of examples:

They say "a picture is worth a thousand words", so let's start with one of those:


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Now here are a couple of numbers. The article is framed as an "exposing myths" piece, so that's how I'll present the data:

Myth #5: Keeping a gun at home makes you safer.

Fact-check: For every time a gun is used in self-defense in the home, there are 7 assaults or murders, 11 suicide attempts, and 4 accidents involving guns in or around a home.


-- Note that the article does not refer to the number of times guns were SUCCESSFULLY used in self-defense. So what we see here is for every time a gun-owner ATTEMPTS to defend himself/herself; there are TWENTY-TWO "bad outcomes".

You can get odds that good going to a casino and betting on a roulette-wheel.

Myth #7: Guns make women safer.

Fact-check: In 2010, nearly 6 times more women were shot by husbands, boyfriends, and ex-partners than murdered by male strangers.
• A woman's chances of being killed by her abuser increase more than 7 times if he has access to a gun.


Pay attention ladies! If your husband tells you he's getting a gun "for your protection"; understand what sort of "protection" you're actually getting here...

There are lots more equally explicit, equally unequivocal numbers presented here; and they all point to an IDENTICAL conclusion:

MORE guns = LESS safety

:angry: :angry: :angry:



10 Pro-Gun Myths, Shot Down


http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/01/pro-gun-myths-fact-check

By cutting off federal funding for research and stymieing data collection and sharing, the National Rifle Association has tried to do to the study of gun violence what climate deniers have done to the science of global warming. No wonder: When it comes to hard numbers, some of the gun lobby's favorite arguments are full of holes.

Myth #1: They're coming for your guns.
Fact-check: No one knows the exact number of guns in America, but it's clear there's no practical way to round them all up (never mind that no one in Washington is proposing this). Yet if you fantasize about rifle-toting citizens facing down the government, you'll rest easy knowing that America's roughly 80 million gun owners already have the feds and cops outgunned by a factor of around 79 to 1...
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#21926
Re: FACTS on U.S. gun-ownership; gun violence 1 Year, 5 Months ago Karma: 218
Jeff,

Thanks for "posting". As a "gun owner", I was intrigued by this article.

They stated eight guns per owner- I'm not a gun nut bye any means, but IF I'd inherited my parents guns I'd have exactly eight. So, that number will grow "inherently".

If you asked me how many "domestic" disputes I've witnessed involving guns- I'd honestly say I've "blocked out" more than I can remember- But, if pressed I'd say over four dozen, before the age of eighteen. Maybe, one in ten reported.

A few years ago I bought my wife a gun (figured she'd get a weapons permit to carry). No, it's with all the target stuff. Note- I out shoot my "buddy's", badly enough were they won't let me shoot. She's a better shot than I am and I taught her.
My thought process on the purchase was as stated in the article. To make her safer.

We have a target range in the backyard (up to a 1/4 mile, we use 100 feet). I've been scared to use it lately because it attracts theft. Why ??? Ammo, Guns, all very valuable and the number one thing "victims" tell me. They won't tell the cops, they'll cry later in there beer. "They got my guns", now add in ammo. Since the school shooting- NOT a SHOT. Before, they were lighting it UP. You actually hear the shot sequences and determine- OK, sighting the scope- Hunting- Target shooting- "Spray and Pray". Open defiance of rational thinking- they got robbed and they are sending a warning. Woooooooo... Thus the term "NUT". Ever heard a squirrel "cack" a cat to him. It ain't gonna be pretty.

Finally, the statement on more guns the higher escalation of violence. I have to question law enforcement use of a Tank during "Occupy Tampa". But, at 79 to 1, maybe Brian has a point.

My own physical story with guns is quite boring. I beat a "burglar" with a "baseball bat" and ended up in the police car for "excessive force" or some crap (charges were dropped). So ten years later, I used a gun to stop a burglary (in that case, there were two huge MFer's. One ran and the other assumed the position while crying- "I don't wanna die". I let him go. Needless to say, I was prepared to kill him (adrenalin and focused) and that feeling to this day bothers me.

So, I beat the odds, one for one on crime prevention. I'm fifty and have only read about such stories. Of course, it's not like I've told anyone either. So, there's a certain amount of secrecy on the whole topic.

Just want ALL facts present- These "Myth's" seem to be in line with my own experiences.

Look forward to any and all comments-

Thank You
Earl
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#21931
Re: FACTS on U.S. gun-ownership; gun violence 1 Year, 5 Months ago Karma: 261
Earl wrote:
Jeff,

Thanks for "posting". As a "gun owner", I was intrigued by this article.

They stated eight guns per owner- I'm not a gun nut bye any means, but IF I'd inherited my parents guns I'd have exactly eight. So, that number will grow "inherently".

If you asked me how many "domestic" disputes I've witnessed involving guns- I'd honestly say I've "blocked out" more than I can remember- But, if pressed I'd say over four dozen, before the age of eighteen. Maybe, one in ten reported.

A few years ago I bought my wife a gun (figured she'd get a weapons permit to carry). No, it's with all the target stuff. Note- I out shoot my "buddy's", badly enough were they won't let me shoot. She's a better shot than I am and I taught her.
My thought process on the purchase was as stated in the article. To make her safer.

We have a target range in the backyard (up to a 1/4 mile, we use 100 feet). I've been scared to use it lately because it attracts theft. Why ??? Ammo, Guns, all very valuable and the number one thing "victims" tell me. They won't tell the cops, they'll cry later in there beer. "They got my guns", now add in ammo. Since the school shooting- NOT a SHOT. Before, they were lighting it UP. You actually hear the shot sequences and determine- OK, sighting the scope- Hunting- Target shooting- "Spray and Pray". Open defiance of rational thinking- they got robbed and they are sending a warning. Woooooooo... Thus the term "NUT". Ever heard a squirrel "cack" a cat to him. It ain't gonna be pretty.

Finally, the statement on more guns the higher escalation of violence. I have to question law enforcement use of a Tank during "Occupy Tampa". But, at 79 to 1, maybe Brian has a point.

My own physical story with guns is quite boring. I beat a "burglar" with a "baseball bat" and ended up in the police car for "excessive force" or some crap (charges were dropped). So ten years later, I used a gun to stop a burglary (in that case, there were two huge MFer's. One ran and the other assumed the position while crying- "I don't wanna die". I let him go. Needless to say, I was prepared to kill him (adrenalin and focused) and that feeling to this day bothers me.

So, I beat the odds, one for one on crime prevention. I'm fifty and have only read about such stories. Of course, it's not like I've told anyone either. So, there's a certain amount of secrecy on the whole topic.

Just want ALL facts present- These "Myth's" seem to be in line with my own experiences.

Look forward to any and all comments-

Thank You
Earl


Thank you Earl.

Obviously here we have anecdotes virtually OPPOSITE to the anecdote I posted previously about the "Heroic Sniper" who was gunned down. And for myself and the rest of our CANADIAN audience we see a glimpse at a reality which is (fortunately) generally alien to Canada.

For example, in Canada we (also) get quite a number of gun-owners who use the "libertarian" argument to justify gun-ownership. However, what is much less common in Canada is to hear gun-owners claim they "need" their gun for "protection". It's not that they NEVER use that argument -- as a theoretical reason for wanting/needing their gun -- but the likelihood of ever encountering Canadians who had suffered some "break-in" while they were home is very slim.

Personally, I've never met a Canadian who reported such an experience. So encountering someone like yourself who has been subjected to such a horrific experience (not once, but twice) and who has actually pointed a gun at another human being are events totally beyond the comprehension of most Canadians.

However, here is the point of LOGIC I want to present to people on this topic. Irrespective of the personal experiences of Earl, and the small number of other gun-owners who HAVE used guns to protect themselves, but HAVE NOT had any negative repercussions from gun-ownership; we were just given the Big Picture from the numbers previously presented.

And the Big Picture is absolutely crystal-clear, with no possibility of contradiction:

MORE guns = LESS safety (for the population as a whole)

Obviously we will NEVER have a "perfect world" (either one with LOTS of guns, or one with none at all). There is no such thing as "perfect safety" -- just ask the "Heroic Sniper", who could survive four tours of duty in Iraq, but who couldn't survive walking "the mean streets" of the USA.

With every additional gun in the U.S. making Americans (slightly) less-safe as a whole, we KNOW that as long as individual Americans make the choice to "protect themselves" with more guns they can only make this situation worse and worse and worse. There are MORE guns (by a large margin) in the hands of Americans than ever before. And what do we hear from the gun-owners? We need even more guns!!

This is no different than what our idiot-governments are doing in (supposedly) "fixing" the Euro debt-crisis. How are they "fixing" it? By LENDING more money to insolvent governments.

And after "fixing" this debt crisis for three years now; what is their recommendation for the future? Not simply LARGER loans, but INFINITE lending and money-printing.

So we have people (on this site and elsewhere) who have no problem seeing the absurdity in trying to fix insolvency by LENDING MONEY; yet the same people (blinded by pro-gun propaganda) can't see the absurdity of claiming to "make people safer" by sticking a gun in everyone's hands.

The ONLY path to sanity is to reduce the number of guns floating around U.S. society. That's the "logic". Now let's talk about courage.

What takes more "courage"? To go out and buy a gun; knowing (statistically) that not only will it make your own home less-safe, but (in aggregate terms) you make EVERYONE less-safe.

OR, does it take more courage to say to yourself "even though I know there is a small chance of Thugs breaking into my house, and threatening the lives of myself and family; I'm going to stick with the baseball bat as my "self defense" -- knowing that if enough Americans showed similar courage that eventually this insane 'swamp' will be drained of some of its killing-machines."

I have yet to see any argument which suggests there is anything "courageous" about either buying a gun, or (worst-case) using it on some "intruder". Indeed the "fight or flight" response which all human beings experience in a life-or-death situation is the precise antithesis of courage.

Courage is consciously choosing to subject one's self to some risk. Using a gun on an intruder is simply SELF-PRESERVATION.

Obviously it's easier for Canadians to demonstrate this sort of "courage", since we have never allowed our own gun-insanity to reach such extremes. However, for a people (Americans) who like to "talk tough" more than any other nation on the planet; I see very few signs of COURAGE.

People don't buy guns because they are "brave". They buy them because they are afraid. And any society which chooses to live in such fear obviously needs to engage in some serious self-examination -- something which practically none of the gun-owners are prepared to spend TWO SECONDS doing.

We've all heard the expression that "the definition of insanity is doing the SAME thing but expecting a different result."

When we LEND more money to insolvent debtors; that is INSANE.
When we flood a gun-filled, violence-torn society with ever more guns; that is INSANE.

Obviously such "insanity" comes in many forms. What is troubling is the large numbers of people INTELLECTUALLY incapable of recognizing one (and only one) manifestation of such insanity.
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#21951
Re: FACTS on U.S. gun-ownership; gun violence 1 Year, 5 Months ago Karma: 218
Jeff,

This subject has been a bit of a "lightning rod" at the BBC.

I have been surprised there's less revelations of "reality".

Take away any "hero" factor. Get a dog. Adopt a pet. Each incident I've had, it was a brief moment of "departure" from a dog. The "bat" was inner city at night -I had home field advantage and was kinda pissed at the audacity to crawl through my window. Like I stated, I was charged as well. The laws are different now.

The two "animals", well that was a nice neighborhood. One went to the back door and one went to the front. Broad day light. They're problem was, I saw what they were doing. I was from a much meaner environment. I only chose the front door on instinct- I couldn't flee. I saw there size and observed there coordination. While eating a piece of cold pizza, at the kitchen sink. A dog barking, would have probably taken away any "casing" and any attempt. Obviously, they knew/thought, they could take me easily. For what??? I don't know. I bought a "fix me up" to sell it. Nothing said, I had anything more than "sweat equity".

People don't buy guns because they are "brave". They buy them because they are afraid. And any society which chooses to live in such fear obviously needs to engage in some serious self-examination.


Adopt a dog, the love you give will come back ten fold.

Take Care
Earl
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#21956
Re: FACTS on U.S. gun-ownership; gun violence 1 Year, 5 Months ago Karma: 261
Earl, this is one of those subjects which needs to be dealt with; however it certainly wasn't something which I looked forward to.

The problem is that on top of all the propaganda and brainwashing to which we have all been exposed; this is an area with all sorts of emotional/psychological baggage as well.
On the "positive" side, there are normal (and admirable) "protective" impulses. However, it's often very difficult to see with gun-owners where those urges end and the shoot-bad-guys mentality begins.

Then there is the "inflated self-esteem" angle. When we were kids (at least up in Canada), the punks would tend to get themselves a knife to "feel tough". And (sadly) thanks to pointless mind-pollution like "Thelma & Louise" and "Kill Bill" there are increasing numbers of females who think that carrying weapons and committing acts of violence is the path to "equality".

Yes, I would certainly agree that a dog represents a much more practical compromise in terms of "home protection". What you use in pure "attack power" you presumably gain in that I can't recall hearing of one spouse who "killed" the other by telling their dog to attack...


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#21958
Re: FACTS on U.S. gun-ownership; gun violence 1 Year, 5 Months ago Karma: 218
Jeff,

WOOOOoooffff.....

Yes, I would certainly agree that a dog represents a much more practical compromise in terms of "home protection". What you use in pure "attack power" you presumably gain in that I can't recall hearing of one spouse who "killed" the other by telling their dog to attack...

When the "parents" broke out the guns, the dogs usually halled ass out the back door with us kids. Although we did stop and watch the "code enforcement officer" s*** in his pants a few times.

WOOOOoooffff.....

bullionbullscanada.com/bulletin-boards/1...0&start=50#21959

Thank You
Earl
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#21963
Re: FACTS on U.S. gun-ownership; gun violence 1 Year, 5 Months ago Karma: 261
Yes, Earl we had a "guard dog" in the house like that when I was a kid. Would bark loudly at every approaching stranger (and potential intruder)...from underneath the coffee table.

Of course, I'm embarrassed to admit that the dog was a poodle (not my choice!).


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