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NO "gold" in "gold-backed products"
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Gold & Silver Discussions
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TOPIC: NO "gold" in "gold-backed products"
#22400
NO "gold" in "gold-backed products" 1 Year, 11 Months ago Karma: 273
I've discussed precisely this topic (and theme) in some fairly recent commentaries, however, the propaganda machine continues to get more and more blatant in admitting the rampant banker-fraud in bullion markets. It doesn't get much clearer than this statement:

...New measures [to suppress Indian gold demand] might include more paper products that include various gold-backed financial products that would not require gold from abroad.

As a matter of linguistics, there are only two theoretically possible ways in which this sentence can be interpreted.

1) When Indians purchase "gold-backed products" from abroad they are not actually importing gold. However, this immediately begs another question: what are they importing???

2) "Gold-backed products" may not (do not) contain gold.

Obviously (2) is totally self-explanatory, so only (1) requires some explanation and legal clarification.

Understand that India's gold shortage is intentionally mis-characterized as a "current account deficit" (i.e. a currency deficit). This is despite the fact that gold is a currency, and it's impossible to end up with a "currency deficit" when you trade one currency for another.



So referring back to (1) a narrow, technical explanation of the sentence I quoted could be that when Indians purchase "gold-backed products" (from abroad) they are not legally/technically "importing gold". What are they importing?

Paper.

What this implies (but of course the propaganda machine never states explicitly) is that with any "gold-backed product", the product-holder only owns paper, while it is the "backer" of the product who OWNS GOLD.

Highlighting this is the prospectus of GLD itself, where even in the case of "willful default" -- i.e. HSBC simply choosing not to deliver gold to these supposed "gold-holders" -- holders of GLD never have the legal right to force HSBC to deliver that gold. GLD-holders own nothing but paper. HSBC (the "custodian") owns all the gold.

Thus the most-favorable explanation of the entire paper-gold "industry" is merely the (absolute) legal Truth that holders of these bullion "products" own no bullion at all.

The less-favorable interpretation is that some/most/all of these "bullion-backed" products are simple frauds; where the bankers involved sell people these bullion-backed products -- but only pretend to actually back them with bullion.

Paper masquerading as "gold" (or "silver"). Or simply open fraud. These are the only two rational/possible ways in which these paper-gold and paper-silver products can be viewed -- even in the words of the propaganda machine itself.





India likely to announce more anti Gold measures

www.bullionstreet.com/news/india-likely-...i-gold-measures/4167

New measures might include more paper products that include various gold-backed financial products that would not require gold from abroad.

NEW DELHI(BullionStreet): India is likely to announce more measures in the up coming budget to curb the climbing gold imports, analysts said.

The Finance ministry under P. Chidambaram may take more measures considering country's swelling current account deficit and the dangers posed to the stability of the banking system., they added.

India will present its annual budget on 28 February. Finance minister P. Chidambaram is seeking to curb the spending deficit, partly by increasing taxes.

New measures might include more paper products that include various gold-backed financial products that would not require gold from abroad.

The finance ministry had earlier raised the import duty on gold from 4% to 6% to contain current account deficit which has been widening mainly on account of a surge in import of gold.

Gold rallied for a 12th year in 2012 as investors and central banks boosted purchases, forcing India to triple the import duty. India’s current account deficit hit near six percent and in some months gold imports accounted for half the gap.

Country's central bank recently suggested fiscal and non fiscal steps to check import of the yellow metal. However,some analysts said it is not yet clear whether the measures will actually curb the volume of gold imports as higher tax could simply divert more of the gold trade on to the black market.

After petroleum products, gold accounts for the highest outflow of foreign exchange in India.

India is the world’s largest gold importer and accounts for more than a fifth of global demand. Any drop in India’s gold consumption could be one of the reasons for a possible lackluster performance by the gold.
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#22401
Re: NO "gold" in "gold-backed products" 1 Year, 11 Months ago Karma: 168
The gold developed cold feet and backed-out of the gold backed products(lol). Nothing beats physical!
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#22405
Re: NO "gold" in "gold-backed products" 1 Year, 11 Months ago Karma: 273
I'm going to actually end up writing a(nother) full commentary on this subject, which is why I didn't write even more about this fascinating subject. So here is a teaser-question which I'm hoping regular readers will have little problem in answering.

The propaganda machine suggests "fixing" India's gold market in one of two ways:

1) Artificially adding a "duty" to gold purchases to artificially reduce demand. More generally, this is known as market-manipulation.

2) Selling Indians "gold-backed products" which contain no gold (lol). More generally, this is known as FRAUD.

So my open question to readers is how can India's gold market be "fixed" without resorting to either FRAUD or MANIPULATION (which our bankers/government/media tell us are the "solutions" to everything)???
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#22614
Re: NO "gold" in "gold-backed products" 1 Year, 10 Months ago Karma: 38
Answer: Confiscate it all. You said Fraud and Manipulation Jeff. You did not mention out and out theft.
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#22618
Re: NO "gold" in "gold-backed products" 1 Year, 10 Months ago Karma: 273
zooey wrote:
Answer: Confiscate it all. You said Fraud and Manipulation Jeff. You did not mention out and out theft.


Actually Zooey, the U.S. gold confiscation in 1933 was BOTH "fraudulent" and "manipulative".



The manipulation came in TRICKING Americans into surrendering their gold, because at the time the U.S. still had a "convertible" currency. In other words, Americans assumed that (a couple years later) once the "crisis" had passed that they could simply swap their paper back for gold. It was only AFTER the gold had been confiscated that the U.S. government ended convertibility.

Secondly, it was also an act of fraud -- as practically immediately after "confiscating" the gold (supposedly at fair-market value) that the U.S. government "revalued" the price of gold higher by 50%. Or put another way, right after FORCING Americans to swap their gold for paper the U.S. government devalued the paper.

Confiscation is not supposed to be theft, since governments are supposed to pay "fair compensation" for anything they demand that their citizens surrender. However, where fraud/manipulation inevitably becomes a part of confiscation is that governments RARELY pay "fair-market value."



P.S. Note that it would NOT be possible for our governments to deceive us in a similar manner today. None of our nations have "convertible" currencies, and none of TODAY'S bullion-holders would ever believe that our governments would pay them fair-market value.

But this is why I think they have made such an effort to dupe the Sheep into buying their "bullion" in the form of accounts or ETF's. People won't be given a CHOICE to surrender that bullion. Point-and-click and it's gone.

That's also why I think holding physical bullion personally is still relatively safe. The government has no way of proving people still have their bullion -- short of busting down doors (and tearing up walls?). I doubt that they will be willing to go Full-Nazi just to steal peoples' bullion when they can get 80+% with just point-and-click.
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#22676
Re: NO "gold" in "gold-backed products" 1 Year, 10 Months ago Karma: 38
I think there is a differnce between and ETF; which I beileve SLV and GLD are the shining examples. There is a difference between those and CEF Canada and the bullion trusts.

i do not think that Canadian bullion funds carry the risks that those ETF's do.

Of course and bird in the hand etc. But for practical purposes the few Canadian funds run by CEF and OH MY Sprott do exhibit they are metal backed.
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#22677
Re: NO "gold" in "gold-backed products" 1 Year, 10 Months ago Karma: 38
"Actually Zooey, the U.S. gold confiscation in 1933 was BOTH "fraudulent" and "manipulative"."


Well my friend I have never known when that distinction of fraud and manipulation did not result in out and out theft.

Because that is what is was. God lawyers etc. Theft is theft is theft. Fraud=loss and deception

Manipulation is a larger topic. Ultimately the target is theft.

Simple truth.
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#22680
Re: NO "gold" in "gold-backed products" 1 Year, 10 Months ago Karma: 75
Jeff Nielson wrote:
The manipulation came in TRICKING Americans into surrendering their gold, because at the time the U.S. still had a "convertible" currency. In other words, Americans assumed that (a couple years later) once the "crisis" had passed that they could simply swap their paper back for gold. It was only AFTER the gold had been confiscated that the U.S. government ended convertibility.

Quick question: Did Canada have a convertible currency at this time? Did it ever have such a currency? I've always wondered how Canada handled the deflation of the Great Depression era. Canada never had slavery. Canada did not have a prohibition policy (against alcohol). Growing up in the U.S. I have always, perhaps fancifully, thought of Canada as being at least a slightly, and possibly a significantly, more enlightened nation than the U.S. Thus it would not surprise me if Canada held onto its convertible currency longer than the U.S. assuming of course that it ever had such a currency.
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#22685
Re: NO "gold" in "gold-backed products" 1 Year, 10 Months ago Karma: 273
agau121 wrote:


Quick question: Did Canada have a convertible currency at this time? Did it ever have such a currency? I've always wondered how Canada handled the deflation of the Great Depression era. Canada never had slavery. Canada did not have a prohibition policy (against alcohol). Growing up in the U.S. I have always, perhaps fancifully, thought of Canada as being at least a slightly, and possibly a significantly, more enlightened nation than the U.S. Thus it would not surprise me if Canada held onto its convertible currency longer than the U.S. assuming of course that it ever had such a currency.



Sorry to shatter your illusions AgAu, but when it comes to monetary policy Canada has been at least as reckless/corrupt as the U.S.

To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure when the ability to redeem paper for bullion ended in Canada. It seems to have been some time between 1910 and 1929 -- by which time Canada had essentially abandoned the gold standard, and (like most of the Rest of the World) adopted the USD-standard but. At that time, the dollar itself was still more-or-less gold-backed.

Doing a little research; this is the best piece I could locate. It was written in 1948, meaning only a minimum amount of Revisionism in it.

faculty.marianopolis.edu/c.Belanger/queb...CurrencyinCanada.htm
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