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Al-Qaeda claims responsibility
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TOPIC: Al-Qaeda claims responsibility
#21696
Re: Al-Qaeda claims responsibility 1 Year, 10 Months ago Karma: 268
debsyl wrote:


...Jeff, your example about the dog is thought provoking; however, if I was to apply this to my personal views, I should have the “right” to attack and perhaps even kill abortion providers. I STRONGLY disagree, we are human beings, and the taking of ANY life is wrong, regardless of the evil perpetrated by the doctor or nurse towards the innocent human beings they destroy and kill, irrespective of whether these "children" are inside or outside the womb. It is for this reason, that the VAST majority of pro-lifers write letters, make visits to their government officials and march in front of their government office buildings to express the need for a law to protect the most defenceless of human beings.

Having written that, Jeff, I would suggest to you that you have missed my point...



Shame on you Debsyl!

First for TOTALLY twisting the point I made in my argument, and then having the audacity to accuse me of "missing [your] point." I said (with respect to vicious dogs and their abusive owners):

"We blame the owners but still kill the dogs."

...and you totally TWISTED what I said and pretended I suggested it was OK to kill the dog-owners.

Debsyl, when people seem to find it impossible to understand/reply to what people actually said -- and instead twist things into totally different messages in their own mind -- this is a very strong indicator of brainwashing and/or Zealotry.

I would encourage you to SLOW DOWN and apply the deductive reasoning which you have shown yourself capable of concerning less-emotional subjects.
Jeff Nielson
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#21734
Re: Al-Qaeda claims responsibility 1 Year, 10 Months ago Karma: 153
Samix wrote,
If you are sincere, then why has the west not intervened in Syria to stop the daily massacre of the civilians, inspite of the puppet SNC asking for it ? The answer is simple, the west does not intervene to help friends, the west intervenes to help puppets and agents.

LOL, Samix, did you think I was the President of the USA, President of France, or Prime Minster of England that you should suggest I could control the actions of the west.

Samix wrote,
No, we do not ignore those passages, but we understand them and put them in context, we do not go around killing people and then use those passages to justify. I do not want to get into the bloody history of the Christians, debsyl, when the west reached North America, Australia, New Zealand, it was not empty, it had people living there, guess who killed them?

You are once again getting side tracked, Samix.
Calling oneself a Christian, doesn’t make it so. The Bible reveals the marks of a true Christian.

Matthew 7:16, 17, 18
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Again, I will state, our religions are as different as night and day, as are the actions and characters of your prophet and my Messiah.

Jeff,
DISCLAIMER: in the context of your explanation, I have understood your example to be paralleled as follows:
dog owner being Westerners
dog being Muslims
At no time am I implying that I feel Muslims are dogs, I am simply using the words interchangeably to explain my position.
If this is not the analogy you wished to portray, than a little clarity would be helpful, as this is how I understand it.

Jeff wrote,
Shame on you Debsyl!
First for TOTALLY twisting the point I made in my argument, and then having the audacity to accuse me of "missing [your] point." I said (with respect to vicious dogs and their abusive owners):
"We blame the owners but still kill the dogs."
...and you totally TWISTED what I said and pretended I suggested it was OK to kill the dog-owners.
Debsyl, when people seem to find it impossible to understand/reply to what people actually said -- and instead twist things into totally different messages in their own mind -- this is a very strong indicator of brainwashing and/or Zealotry.
I would encourage you to SLOW DOWN and apply the deductive reasoning which you have shown yourself capable of concerning less-emotional subjects.


You are right, Jeff, you never stated that the dog owners (Westerners) should be killed. So…why don’t you speak out against the actions of the terrorists who took hostage (and killed) western oil pipeline workers in Algeria? These workers had nothing to do with the conflict. In my example, I stressed that it would be wrong for pro-lifers to kill abortionists (the parallel I used for dog owners). As you know, I speak out boldly about the atrocities committed by abortionists; however, if an abortionist is killed by someone who professes himself / herself to be “pro-life”, I am just as vocal in condemning such a killing.

Jeff, I am not brainwashed, as you suggested. What I am able to do is make distinctions between “understandable” actions and the acts of terror or murder, rather than ignore the evils as they present themselves. For example, if one attacks an enemy’s army base it would be “understandable”, but these are innocent workers with no ties to the conflict.

At no time did I ever suggest that I agreed with western nations minding into the business of other nations. I have never agreed with the Westerner’s attack against Iraq, nor their interference into the affairs of Egypt, or Syria for that matter. (As a note of interest - Christians were “protected” under Assad, Saddam Hussein, and Mubarak) What I have stated is, "The only ”battles” that I feel are justified are those where a country, nation, state or peoples (you get the picture) are defending themselves against the attack of another; not only do they every right to defend themselves, but other nations have the right to assist if ASKED to help." For example, when the Netherlands asked the Allies to help liberate them from the Germans, during World War II.

I also stated that I believe Israel has the right to defend itself against the continuous mortars and missiles that are directed at them. Here we will have to agree to disagree, as your position and mine differ dramatically, not because I am brainwashed or less informed, but because we have a diametrically different starting points regarding this conflict.

The purpose of my original post was to state that it is unacceptable to take, as hostages, individuals who are simply workers and have nothing to do with the conflict. I do not recall you ever criticising the actions of the terrorists. So ….. even though you never “suggested it was OK to kill the dog-owners” you also never speak out against the killing of the totally innocent “bystanders”.
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#21735
Re: Al-Qaeda claims responsibility 1 Year, 10 Months ago Karma: 168
LOL, Samix, did you think I was the President of the USA, President of France, or Prime Minster of England that you should suggest I could control the actions of the west.
The you was more directed towards the western world rather than you, and in a democracy, your leaders are you, you cannot wash your hands off their actions, being elected representatives they represent the majority opinion of your country. You cannot have it both ways. Democracy is a system "for the people, by the people"

samix said:
Debsyl, where was your anger and outrage when France started indiscriminate bombing of Mali killing women and children ? Or killing by the western backed Bashar Assad ? or Israeli killing of teenagers just in the previous week ? Ah! their blood is cheap you see, they are Muslims. Are you outraged this time because westerners are killed, blue eyed blonde hair types ?
debsyl said:
You are right, Jeff, you never stated that the dog owners (Westerners) should be killed. So…why don’t you speak out against the actions of the terrorists who took hostage (and killed) western oil pipeline workers in Algeria? These workers had nothing to do with the conflict.
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#21737
Re: Al-Qaeda claims responsibility 1 Year, 10 Months ago Karma: 168
I also stated that I believe Israel has the right to defend itself against the continuous mortars and missiles that are directed at them. Here we will have to agree to disagree, as your position and mine differ dramatically, not because I am brainwashed or less informed, but because we have a diametrically different starting points regarding this conflict.
For a moment let us just keep aside the phosphorus, multi ton bombs and other deadly bombardments from F16's that Israel does to the hapless, unarmed, innocent Palestinians and see what it does to it's own population.
After Israel was accused of forcing Ethiopian women to accept injections of the contraceptive Depo-Provera in an attempt to lower birth rates among black immigrants, an official has for the first time admitted use of the drug among Ethiopian women.
...
In her 2009 study, Eyal described the drug use as part of an "unspoken [official] policy" aimed to "reduce the births in a community that is mostly black and poor."
...

Ofcourse Israel killing Muslims is no big deal for you, In your selective morality I hope this should outrage you to true extents because you have Israel "persecuting", bible believing(old testament) Jews and maybe Christians asylum seekers too.

www.digitaljournal.com/article/342250
www.haaretz.com/news/national/israel-adm...ots.premium-1.496519
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#21750
Re: Al-Qaeda claims responsibility 1 Year, 10 Months ago Karma: 153
Samix wrote,
If you are sincere, then why has the west not intervened in Syria to stop the daily massacre of the civilians, inspite of the puppet SNC asking for it ? The answer is simple, the west does not intervene to help friends, the west intervenes to help puppets and agents.

Debsyl wrote,
LOL, Samix, did you think I was the President of the USA, President of France, or Prime Minster of England that you should suggest I could control the actions of the west.

Samix wrote,
The you was more directed towards the western world rather than you, and in a democracy, your leaders are you, you cannot wash your hands off their actions, being elected representatives they represent the majority opinion of your country. You cannot have it both ways. Democracy is a system "for the people, by the people"


Is this what most Muslims think? If so, then it certainly sheds a great deal of light on the danger facing ALL westerners.



samix wrote:
Debsyl, where was your anger and outrage when France started indiscriminate bombing of Mali killing women and children ? Or killing by the western backed Bashar Assad ? or Israeli killing of teenagers just in the previous week ? Ah! their blood is cheap you see, they are Muslims. Are you outraged this time because westerners are killed, blue eyed blonde hair types ?

debsyl wrote:
You are right, Jeff, you never stated that the dog owners (Westerners) should be killed. So…why don’t you speak out against the actions of the terrorists who took hostage (and killed) western oil pipeline workers in Algeria? These workers had nothing to do with the conflict.


MY position has always been clear.


Ofcourse Israel killing Muslims is no big deal for you, In your selective morality I hope this should outrage you to true extents because you have Israel "persecuting", bible be.


Samix, how does this relate to the topic at hand?
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#21752
Re: Al-Qaeda claims responsibility 1 Year, 10 Months ago Karma: 168
debsyl wrote:
Samix wrote,
If you are sincere, then why has the west not intervened in Syria to stop the daily massacre of the civilians, inspite of the puppet SNC asking for it ? The answer is simple, the west does not intervene to help friends, the west intervenes to help puppets and agents.

Debsyl wrote,
LOL, Samix, did you think I was the President of the USA, President of France, or Prime Minster of England that you should suggest I could control the actions of the west.

Samix wrote,
The you was more directed towards the western world rather than you, and in a democracy, your leaders are you, you cannot wash your hands off their actions, being elected representatives they represent the majority opinion of your country. You cannot have it both ways. Democracy is a system "for the people, by the people"

Is this what most Muslims think? If so, then it certainly sheds a great deal of light on the danger facing ALL westerners.

Debsyl, you may be surprised to know that Muslims are discerning individuals and make a distinction between the powerless public that has absolutely no power to effectuate anything vis-a-vis the political elite. Which is one reason why we feel that democracy is just a farce. My wordings were a satarical take on the mother of all solutions democracy.


Ofcourse Israel killing Muslims is no big deal for you, In your selective morality I hope this should outrage you to true extents because you have Israel "persecuting", bible be.

Samix, how does this relate to the topic at hand?

If I open another thread with this topic then will you agree that Israel is a racist, bigoted aparthied regime.
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#21753
Re: Al-Qaeda claims responsibility 1 Year, 10 Months ago Karma: 168

Ofcourse Israel killing Muslims is no big deal for you, In your selective morality I hope this should outrage you to true extents because you have Israel "persecuting", bible be.

Samix, how does this relate to the topic at hand?

If I open another thread with this topic then will you agree that Israel is a racist, bigoted aparthied regime.

You seem to have given a complete tactical miss to the entire issue of Ethopian migrants being force injected with contraceptives, which is a bloodless genocide of a people by God's chosen people Israel.
samix
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Last Edit: 2013/01/28 15:07 By samix.
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#21792
Re: Al-Qaeda claims responsibility 1 Year, 10 Months ago Karma: 153
Samix wrote,
Debsyl, you may be surprised to know that Muslims are discerning individuals and make a distinction between the powerless public that has absolutely no power to effectuate anything vis-a-vis the political elite. Which is one reason why we feel that democracy is just a farce. My wordings were a satarical take on the mother of all solutions democracy.

Then we have come full circle, Samix, and I will ask you, "Are YOU prepared to criticise the killing of these “powerless public”, in Algeria.

My next question:
If Muslims “make a distinction between the powerless public” why did they choose nightclubs in the TOURIST DISTRICT of Kuta, on the Indonesian island of Bali, to “make a statement”? 202 lives were lost in that bombing.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Bali_bombings

The 2002 Bali bombings occurred on 12 October 2002 in the tourist district of Kuta on the Indonesian island of Bali. The attack was claimed as the deadliest act of terrorism in the history of Indonesia according to the current police general, killing 202 people (including 88 Australians, 38 Indonesian, 27 Britons, 9 Americans and 5 Swedish citizens).[1] A further 240 people were injured.
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#21795
Re: Al-Qaeda claims responsibility 1 Year, 10 Months ago Karma: 168
Then we have come full circle, Samix, and I will ask you, "Are YOU prepared to criticise the killing of these “powerless public”, in Algeria.
Of-course I condemn the senseless killing of the people that day like any other day, unlike you, who refuses to budge on their position on Israel and again gave a nice miss to all that I have said about Israel above.

But remember that there are conflicting hostage accounts about the killings by the rebels but confirmed killing accounts by the Algerian army who are an ally to the west.
If Muslims “make a distinction between the powerless public” why did they choose nightclubs in the TOURIST DISTRICT of Kuta, on the Indonesian island of Bali, to “make a statement”? 202 lives were lost in that bombing.
Why did western powers choose to kill the millions, the powerless and innocent civilians of Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Yemen and not Mali for their geo political aims ?

Why have they chosen to put economic sanctions on Iraq previously and now Iran when it is clear that sanctions only affect the general public and not the elites. Why are they blocking weapons and other resources to the Syrian rebels knowing that the Syrian army is killing civilians left right and center.
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Re: Al-Qaeda claims responsibility 1 Year, 10 Months ago Karma: 153
Debsyl wrote,
Then we have come full circle, Samix, and I will ask you, "Are YOU prepared to criticise the killing of these “powerless public”, in Algeria.

Samix wtote,
Of-course I condemn the senseless killing of the people that day like any other day, unlike you, who refuses to budge on their position on Israel and again gave a nice miss to all that I have said about Israel above.


Samix, I have stated unequivocally that ALL life is precious, including the abortionists who take the lives of the most defenceless of human beings. If you think I feel less for any other human being, than you are wrong.

I have also stated that I do not believe civilians should be used as hostages. I am not sure what more you would like me to declare. As you know, I am a Bible believing Christian and thus I believe that Israel has a GOD GIVEN right to exist. I understand that Muslims strongly disagree with this; in fact, they have stated a number of times that they are intent on destroying Israel. You and I disagree on what I know to be Israel’s right and thus we will have to agree to disagree.

Just as I do not agree with ALL the deeds of the Canadian gov’t, and do not take responsibility for them, regardless of the form of government we have. l also do not endorse all the actions of Israel, but Israel (as do all nations) has a right to defend itself from its attackers.

Samix, there is no need to post anything more about why you and the Muslims feel Israel is not entitled to its present location, as my position will not change on that subject as it is revealed in God’s word. It really is that simple. Perhaps you have forgotten, we have already had a lengthy discussion on this subject on another thread.

Samix wrote,
But remember that there are conflicting hostage accounts about the killings by the rebels but confirmed killing accounts by the Algerian army who are an ally to the west.

You are attempting to change the direction of the post again. The facts are: hostages were taken by Muslim terrorists to obtain specific demands, these were not military personnel; they were oilfield workers. Had this hostage taking not taken place these men (women?) would be alive today, thus the fault lies with the terrorists. It is really that simple.

Debsyl wrote,
If Muslims “make a distinction between the powerless public” why did they choose nightclubs in the TOURIST DISTRICT of Kuta, on the Indonesian island of Bali, to “make a statement”? 202 lives were lost in that bombing.

Samix wrote,
Why did western powers choose to kill the millions, the powerless and innocent civilians of Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Yemen and not Mali for their geo political aims ?
Why have they chosen to put economic sanctions on Iraq previously and now Iran when it is clear that sanctions only affect the general public and not the elites. Why are they blocking weapons and other resources to the Syrian rebels knowing that the Syrian army is killing civilians left right and center.


This sounds like you you’re condoning their actions, Samix, rather than firmly taking a stand against such violence. Can you justify the BALI mass murder? Can you not out rightly condemn the actions of the Muslim terrorists in the nightclub of Bali? It really is a simple question. Either you agree with the actions of the terrorists’ or you do not. "yes" or "no"
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