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0% Interest Rate = Worthless Dollar

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In a recent piece I wrote, Suicide Bombers’ in the Gold Market?, I strongly asserted that the highly-leveraged spread-trade which ‘blew up’ – and caused the most recent sell-off in the gold market – was deliberately orchestrated by the anti-gold banking cabal.

To briefly summarize the facts, an unknown “trader” was able to leverage a $10 million “fund” (i.e. bet) into an $850 million dollar spread-trade, representing nearly 15% of the entire Comex futures market, while leveraged at an absurd 85:1. It was a “trade” created to fail. Of more relevance (to this piece), I observed that such tactics would likely become commonplace with the banksters, since a mere $850 million was “nothing” to them – in a world where they can get their friend (and fellow, private banker) Ben Bernanke to simply print-up $850 million more in Bernanke-bills, and “lend” it to them at 0% interest.

A reader of my previous piece attempted to criticize that commentary by noting that the actual losses on the trade(s) would have been nowhere near $850 – totally missing the point. With the Wall Street bankers able to obtain (and Ben Bernanke willing to print) infinite amounts of Bernanke-bills, “loaned” at 0% interest, this paper has become nothing more than “confetti” to the banksters.

Several observations need to be made about the United States’ “zero interest rate policy” (ZIRP), observations which (strangely) no one in the mainstream media has been willing/able to make.

1) Calling the $trillions in Bernanke-bills funneled into Wall Street banks “loans” is absurd. Anything “borrowed” with ZIRP never needs to be repaid – since there is literally “zero” penalty for failing to do so. Thus every penny of these “0% loans” is simply another back-door hand-out to the greatest corporate deadbeats in the history of humanity.

2) As a matter of elementary economic fundamentals, a ZIRP economy must drive the value of its currency to zero over time. It is merely simple arithmetic that the long-term value of any/every good which can be obtained at zero cost is zero. Otherwise those with access to this 0% good could literally use the “arbitrage” on this scam to buy-up (i.e. steal) all of the world’s assets.

3) The U.S. economy is already so insolvent that (in reality) U.S. interest rates are permanently frozen at 0%. Carrying $60 trillion in total public/private debt, raising interest rates by a mere 1% would drain an additional $600 billion per year out of the U.S. economy – equal (by itself) to nearly a 5% drop in GDP, before factoring-in the severe “multiplier effect” of draining that massive amount of capital from the economy. This means that in practical terms, the U.S. dollar is already worthless.

4) The Federal Reserve has placed absolutely no limits on the amount of 0% funny-money it’s willing to funnel to Wall Street. In other words, it is available to these banksters in literally infinite amounts. For reasons previously given, the present value of any/every good which can be obtained in infinite amounts, at zero cost is zero. This means on the basis of simple arithmetic, the U.S. dollar is already worthless.

The latter point should be extremely self-evident. If I could “borrow” infinite amounts of money at 0%, I would “borrow” $1,000,000 quadrillion, and “buy” every asset on the planet. I would need at least that much money to buy-up everything, since the moment all that funny-money began circulating in the global economy, it would rapidly drive-up the price of everything (kind of like what is currently taking place in the global economy after “QE2”).

Of course, on a practical basis I could never buy-up everything, not even if I had a million times that previous fantasy-number. The reason? People would quickly realize that this funny-money which I obtained in infinite amounts, at zero cost was worthless – and they would no longer accept it.

Thus we have our practical reason as to why the thieves of Wall Street have not asked Ben Bernanke to print-up $1,000,000 quadrillion, and “loan” it to them at 0% - because they know the moment they engage in such a blatant scam (to steal the world’s assets) that all of their money (and their entire, paper “empires”) immediately becomes worthless, as the chumps figure out the scam.

This is merely one of the reasons that no nation in history has ever moved its official, national interest rate to 0%, and simply left it there over the long term (with inevitable hyperinflation being another reason). While all of our banker-dominated governments are addicted to the theft-through-money-dilution which is inherent in our “credit-based” (i.e. inflation-based) economies, none of them want totally worthless currencies – for obvious reasons.

If the U.S. government (and the bankers who operate all the levers of power) wish to demonstrate that the value of the U.S. dollar today is greater than zero, there is a very simple way to do so: raise interest rates significantly. As I have demonstrated, the failure to do so is a direct (but implicit) admission that the real “value” of the U.S. dollar is zero.

The Duplicitous Duo of Bernanke & Geithner continue to spout the ridiculous lie that the U.S. economy is “too weak” to justify raising interest rates. Again, the mainstream media cowardly refuses to acknowledge the blatant hypocrisy here. For over two years (out of the other side of their mouths), this tag-team has told us there is a “U.S. economic recovery” underway. In historical terms, the GDP “growth” being reported quarter-after-quarter constitutes a “robust recovery” (if taken seriously).

This means that in a world of responsible journalism, the Duplicitous Duo would be forced to face their blatant contradiction: that after two years of a robust “economic recovery”, the U.S. economy still “needs” to have its interest rates set at the most reckless level in the history of humanity – despite the obvious and catastrophic impact this policy has on the national currency and the overall economy.

The analogy here is of a professional athlete who is critically injured, and admitted to the “intensive care” ward of a hospital. Weeks later, the doctor in charge of the athlete pronounces the athlete “recovered” – and ready to continue playing his sport – but refuses to discharge the athlete from the intensive-care unit (not even two years after the athlete’s “recovery”). It is an absolute contradiction of fact, and the failure of the mainstream media to assert this contradiction (on a daily basis, if necessary) is an absolute failure of journalism.

Simply, either the “U.S. economic recovery” is 100% myth, or the “need” to keep U.S. interest rates is a complete and total lie. There are no other possibilities. It has been my position all along that it is the former position which is the “fiction”, while I wholeheartedly assert again and again that 0% interest rates are the only factor temporarily warding-off the bankruptcy of both the Wall Street banks and the entire U.S. economy.

The “trap” here, and the reason that this desperation-policy must result in self-annihilation is because of what I also alluded to: the inevitability of hyperinflation. As competent economic commentators point out, hyperinflation is a “confidence” event (as is the case with the failure of any/every scam): the chumps finally figure out that the money-printers plan to print up their funny-money in infinite quantities – and they refuse to accept it.

Essentially, every episode of hyperinflation in human history is nothing more than a real-life portrayal of “The Emperor’s New Clothes”. Just as the masses can/could blind themselves to the fact that the Emperor is naked, so too have the masses (in real life) deluded themselves into believing that worthless, U.S. dollars still have value. And just as with the naked Emperor, the masses could very easily wake up tomorrow and decide the dollar is also “naked” (i.e. worthless).

This is why over the last decade sophisticated investors all over the world have been converting their banker-paper to gold and silver. The U.S. dollar is already worthless. Most of the other fiat-currencies are merely lagging the dollar’s plunge to zero.

ZIRP” is not the sober policy of responsible bankers, in charge of (at the moment) the world’s largest economy. It is the loudest “warning siren” in the history of humanity that the scraps of paper we carry in our wallets are soon to be worthless, and a “last call” to convert that banker confetti into “good money” (i.e silver and gold).

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Jeff Nielson
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written by Jeff Nielson, February 24, 2011
Dylan, the ONLY respect in which I have "underestimated" the banksters was in their "capacity for evil". I have yet to see the slightest indication of "superior ability" - and would not EXPECT to see any.

Understand that the very-wealthy do not "compete", with their proverbial silver-spoons opening any/all doors for them.

Oligopolies/monopolies ALSO do not compete. While I have never worked for government, I DID work for a company with a monopoly when I was working my way through school - and could not believe the inefficiency, and the complete refusal of either workers or management to aim any higher than mediocrity.

So when people try to tell me that VERY RICH bankers working for OLIGOPOLIES are supposedly these "masterful" figures whom are supposed to make us tremble - I can only LAUGH.

I find it "peculiar" (to say the least) how those ON TOP are continually preaching that "competition" (for those on the bottom) is the only way to keep our economies "efficient" - yet when it comes to those on top, "competition" is deemed totally unnecessary, and LITERALLY the furthest thing from their minds.
bobbbny
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written by robert berg, February 24, 2011
Dylan; A wise and insightful comment. The Germans were, however quite successful in delaying, renegotiating, defaulting on their war reparations so that most were settled at pennies on the dollar, or not at all. The inflation & economic collapse brought on by the reparations were the Germans most useful negotiating tool.
As you say about the bankers funding both side of the wars, this is most evident in WW1, where the US funded both sides & didn't come in until all the chips were on the table.
Yes, the bankers were hugely successful, as wealth transferred from London & Paris to the new economic capitol, NY. By the end of WW1, the US had virtually ALL the worlds gold & a lot of IOU's.
This assured World War 2.
This is what the banksters contribute to humanity.
Dylan
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written by Dylan Jones, February 24, 2011
Bobbyny,

“A simple solution for a nation deeply in debt (like the US) is to simply inflate away the value of that debt.”

I used to believe that that is what happened to the Weimar republic. But there is a little problem – the debt was denominated in US dollars and British pounds!
That means that there was no way out. Control of the Reichsbank was turned over to the private international bankers. It was rape and pillage by stealth. Only they could have benefitted from the infinite credit. This is all outlined in Stephen Zarlenga`s book - The Lost Science of Money”
The bankers have always funded both sides of a war, the victors had to pay their own debts AND the debts of the losers as a prerequisite to obtaining the credit. This encouraged the crippling reparations that winners imposed on the losers – Vae Victis – woe to the conquered.

Jeff,

I think subscriber, when quoting Lao Tzu, was advocating OUR adoption of ancient Chinese philosophy. In other words, weather the storm, prepare, lie low and survive until the moment is right.
I don`t like it either, but I think you underestimate these people. You are focusing on the lackeys who probably are dumb. The upper echelons knew their schemes would inevitably lead to the destruction of America. They will just jump ship to China with all the gold and silver that WE have squandered to them by trusting in their lies, leaving chaos in their wake and their expendables to take the backlash (deservedly so). Then, as they have always done, they will come in with the ”solution”
As to arrogance, a who`s who of meglomaniacs including the Jesuits, Napolean, Clausewitz, Stalin, Mao Zedong, Castro, German Panzer leaders, MI5/6, the CIA and Gordon Gekko, ALL read the despot`s handbook – Sun Tzu`s ”The Art of War”

“know yourself – win half your battles
“know yourself and your opponent – win all your battles”

I believe enough people will start to “know their opponent” and when the Banksters try to bring about WWIII – the war to end all wars, they will find that it will be waged against THEM, the ONLY profitable war
Jeff Nielson
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written by Jeff Nielson, February 24, 2011
Bobbbny, what makes analyzing any hyperinflation episode so slippery - in hindsight - is that we do not KNOW what the REAL "trigger" was for the loss of confidence.

Keep in mind that this loss of confidence only manifests itself when it reaches the "critical mass" necessary to detonate hyperinflation. However, trying to pinpoint when (and what event) represented "the point of no return" is a very speculative exercise.

We are much better off instead of trying to FOCUS on any one cause to BROADEN our perspective toward any catalyst which MIGHT trigger hyperinflation.
bobbbny
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written by robert berg, February 23, 2011
Dylan says;
"This wouldn`t have happened if the Reichsbank hadn`t turned over control to the private bankers.
Why did they keep printing and adding all those zeros? Was it because it benefitted a select few? I think confidence in the currency was lost AFTER the event. The first users of an inflated currency DON`T suffer the effects of price increases. The drivers of hyperinflation are what they have always been, astronomical money creation followed by scarfing up and hoarding of ever scarcer physical resources. That is what makes people lose confidence in paper and gain it in pitchforks."
The roots of the Weimer hyperinflation were sown at the Versailles Treaty and the demand for outrageous reparation payments. This is well documented in the book "The Lords of Finance". A simple solution for a nation deeply in debt (like the US) is to simply inflate away the value of that debt. This is what the US did to Japan in the 80s & 90s by allowing the yen to triple vs. the dollar, effectively wiping out 2/3 of our debt to Japan. The Chinese are well aware of this, and so are resistant to an upward revaluation of the Yuan. Therein lies at least one of the reasons why default is a much likelier scenario.
As to the broader discussion of what constitutes "value", I believe that, much like beauty, it is in the eye of the beholder. The issue of "relative value" as it relates to something like a unit of labor, has been distorted and made repulsively ugly by the bankster Ponzi fraudsters. What is the value in poison Chinese toothpaste? What is the value in the Dollar Menu when it results in diabetes and heart failure? What is the value of a dumbed down "education" regardless of teacher pay & benefits?
The system that allows for the accumulation of massive wealth by a tiny fraction of its population through fraud & deceit is broken.
No "money" printing, government largesse, "make work" programs, or anything else they can dream up can save it.
Be happy you are aware of it. The sheeple aren't.

Jeff Nielson
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written by Jeff Nielson, February 23, 2011
Subscriber, I'm going to sound an "optimistic" note here: I think that Western bankers are MUCH too arrogant to adopt the "ancient wisdom" of Chinese strategists.

We see this on display in a number of ways. The incompetent manner in which the cabal has squandered its gold reserves is an obvious example. If they had merely been able to SUPPRESS THEIR GREED so that they engaged in a SUSTAINABLE manipulation/suppression scheme - rather than whatever maximized THIS YEAR'S "profits" (i.e. the proceeds of their scams), they could have "sat on" this market nearly forever. Just imagine how much easier it would have been for them to execute their OTHER evil schemes if they had not (foolishly) allowed the "gold alarm" to start wailing.

In that respect, I see NONE of their schemes as being "inevitable", since I see these insulated, inbred elitists as being woefully lacking in the INTELLECTUAL PROWESS necessary to EXECUTE their grandiose plans.
Jeff Nielson
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written by Jeff Nielson, February 23, 2011
Thanks for the clip, Posthumous, I will certainly check it out!

For you, or anyone else who might have missed it, there was ALSO a link to a VERY nice interview of Salinas Price by James Turk:

http://www.bullionbullscanada.com/index.php?option=com_community&view=videos&task=video&userid=596&videoid=175&Itemid=114
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written by subscriber, February 23, 2011
Jeff,
Should you want to contain something, you must first deliberately let it expand. Should you want to weaken something, you must deliberately let it grow strong. Should you want to eliminate something, you must deliberately allow it to flourish. - Tao Te Ching


Global government, including global currency, has been an expanding idea since at least the time of Cecil Rhodes. I don't think we'll succeed in make a goal line stand to prevent them from scoring. It will come. Meantime, WE are ultimately preparing for the reaction to globalism, and preparing ourselves to survive and thrive between now and them.

Jeff Nielson
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written by Jeff Nielson, February 23, 2011
Whoa! I'm getting WAY behind on this discussion.

To touch on a few of the ideas thrown-out:

Yes, I am in FULL agreement that the ultra-wealthy have vastly superior "information" to us on a wide variety of subjects (including the current, relative value of our goods). When you RUN the scams, it's much easier to see through them.

Yes, Paxjds, I strongly suspect that any attempt (by the West) to try to impose a "world currency" (under THEIR control) would lead to something very close to "global war".

Essentially this was what ALREADY happened with WW II, after the banksters DESTROYED India's and China's silver-based economies - the REAL "cause" of The Great Depression.

Subscriber, I certainly hope you are WRONG with your (shrewd-but-horrifying) suggestion that the "world currency" will come AFTER the "world war" - as it directly implies that "we" (i.e. the people of ALL nations) would have LOST.

Let us hope that the chronology plays-out much differently...
Posthumous
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written by R Longley, February 23, 2011
SORRY folks...That should be...


http://www.cheviot.co.uk/sound...ital-money

Posthumous
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written by R Longley, February 23, 2011
...and for those who are interested in what Hugo Salinas Price's proposals are...fom the horse's mouth, at a seminar last month... at the London's "Guild Hall"...

http://www.cheviot.co.uk/sound...money[url]
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written by subscriber, February 23, 2011
paxjds - I'm inclined to think the coordinated financial collapse and the major war will come before the global currency - just as the Great Depression and WW2 came before the UN and before the US dollar replaced gold as the global currency. The idea is to create so much chaos and destruction that when the "solutions" are proposed, they are welcomed rather than resisted.

"Today Americans would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order; tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told there was an outside threat from beyond whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will pledge with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well being granted to them by their world government."
- Henry Kissinger in an address to the Bilderberger meeting at Evian, France, May 21, 1992.
Dylan
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written by Dylan Jones, February 23, 2011
Jeff, I think subscriber makes a good point. The educated few know what real value is. The rest just take their word for it. Now, if the unscrupulous members of those educated few misused that trust and used fraudulent media of exchange (fiat, unbacked certificates, digits, counterfeit metal, mortgage backed securities – whatever) in order to fleece the sheep and transfer real wealth and real power to themselves, we would be in the situation we are in today. The sad truth is that trust itself in the lies of these criminals is “valuable” to them and a form of “wealth”, a means to real wealth.
As to hyperinflation events, don`t you think that what is truly remarkable is how long they go on for? In Weimar Germany, people used wheel barrows to carry their money around, they didn`t give up on their currency as it was being destroyed. The educated few made a killing on easy credit and shorting the mark into oblivion and buying up stuff of real wealth. This wouldn`t have happened if the Reichsbank hadn`t turned over control to the private bankers.
Why did they keep printing and adding all those zeros? Was it because it benefitted a select few? I think confidence in the currency was lost AFTER the event. The first users of an inflated currency DON`T suffer the effects of price increases. The drivers of hyperinflation are what they have always been, astronomical money creation followed by scarfing up and hoarding of ever scarcer physical resources. That is what makes people lose confidence in paper and gain it in pitchforks.
bobbbny
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written by robert berg, February 23, 2011
Subscriber, attempts to price oil in a basket of currencies, a probable precursor of a global currency, were met with viscous attacks on the Euro by the banksters and their rating agency attack dogs. The US will NEVER give up the pricing of oil in freely printed dollars. It is the key to our dominance. I agree with Jeff here, there will be massive defaults in the tens of trillions of outstanding debt that will lead to the reordering of the global financial system. Evidence of this is all around us, and is beginning in the US States. There will be talk of bailing out states; once again borrowing more to pay our debts. One day the sheeple will wake up.

The copies of gold and silver inflated,
which after the theft were thrown into the lake,
at the discovery that all is exhausted and dissipated by the debt.
All scrips and bonds will be wiped out.
Nostradamus. Century 8, Quatrain 28.

Finally this from Dmitry Orlov about how this unfolded in the Soviet Union, & what to expect here.

http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/02.11/lessons.html
paxjds
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written by david sites, February 23, 2011
subcriber, I think a single world fiat currency would lead to a major war. Assume China and India end up with 80% of the new currency called 'earthbuck' due to trade imbalances. Other countries would not then have enough currency in circulation leading to massive impoverishment and joblessness. Like Japan in WWII over oil and rubber, this would/should ignite major wars. A single world fiat currency backed by nothing would be the de facto reinstatement of fuedalism and slavery controled by the same 'Rothchild's' of the world that have us in the current mess. Naturally, they will claim this new single currrency to be the solution to all the worlds problems, but will lead to more and more impoverishment.

Now is the time to go back to currencies backed by not just gold, but other precious metals and minerals such as oil, coal, and uranium.
0
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written by subscriber, February 23, 2011
Taking it even a little further, we could define the immediate market value as the "Price", thereby leaving the word "Value" to describe something more permanent, but less precisely knowable. But even the value of a good can change over time. Since we can only move forward in time, to know the true value of some good, even approximately, would involve some degree of prescience. I'm thinking of Jim Dines here. Some people seem to see a lot further into the future, and see it more accurately.

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written by subscriber, February 23, 2011
Jeff, further on the idea of value: I quite agree, dogmatic definitions are not too helpful when dealing with such slippery concepts. In terms of exchange, "value" is in the eye of the beholder and determined at the transaction level. This is the kind of price discovery immediate value that markets register. However, there must be another meaning of "value", since value investors buy goods that are temporarily out of favor and hence cheap, but still "valuable" in the longer view - or so they hope. On the other hand, everything changes with time, and no value is absolute except perhaps in the mind of God. At one time, petroleum had little to no value, it just seeped out to the surface here and there and made a mess!

What makes it even slipperier is when you add in the concept of fraud: does a counterfeit gold bar have "value"? Perhaps, temporarily, in exchange, we could answer yes, but we both know that it's value has been deeply compromised. Fraud and deceit is usually found out, sooner or later, so we would have to say that there is the "false value" before the fraud becomes known, and the more nearly "true value" afterward.

Sooooo . . . It looks like our current debt money has one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel, but it is not yet dead; a bruised reed, a smoking wick, not yet quenched. Buy bullion while you still can!
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written by subscriber, February 23, 2011
Bobbbny - The elite have been working toward a debt money system for over a century. I don't think they are about to change their goal. The next step is to introduce a true global currency, and I don't mean gold.

Here's how I see it playing out, or one possibility anyway. The big question among the elite is just who gets to issue the debt money. That particular franchise is highly sought after. The interim solution has been the US dollar, a de facto world currency. That got every body used to the idea and allowed certain necessary systems to be put in place. But they are not going to allow the USA to be the sole issuer and beneficiary for much longer.

I see the competitive devaluation phase that we are in as a way to synchronize the monetary collapse. If they can get a coordinated world-wide currency crisis, that sets the stage for a global solution, supplied by some form of global government. The global currency authority, maybe the BIS, or World Bank, or some newly created ministry will pull a system reset. These d----- competing national currencies are the problem! We'll all start over with a new global currency that will be responsibly managed (trust us!) by the new global authority. It will probably be debt money, possibly fiat to some extent, and they may trumpet that it has some percentage of gold backing, as though they are now responsibly solving the fiat money/inflation problem. But that will only be part of the sales pitch. Nobody will be able to redeem their global currency for real metal, and the supposed gold backing will not really limit the amount of debt money put into circulation. The elite group that runs this show will have the power to create as much or as little new money as they please, just like Bennie does today.

By now, global government will no longer be something that is laughed at as a conspiracy theory, it will be a reality and all the controlled news media will unite to praise it as the solution to all our problem, just like Roosevelt's New Deal.

IMO, the control of money is still only a step along the road to consolidated global political control. These folks want to rule the world, even if they do it from behind the scenes using puppet politicians.
bobbbny
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written by robert berg, February 22, 2011
Jeff; I fear your response is correct.
HSP's proposal is brilliant, but would only hasten the default.
No one would want the fiat anymore.
Jeff Nielson
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written by Jeff Nielson, February 22, 2011
Bobbbny, two separate issues here.

Yes, the Zimbabwe example has been discussed before - and the LACK of any available back-up currency for the U.S. This is another reason why PM's will have primacy over any/other items we could hoard, and even silver is less bulky than any kind of "necessities" we could store.

When it comes to "backing" ANY of our currencies, the obvious point is that NONE of our nations (except maybe China) could ever accumulate enough precious metals to "back" their DEBTS.

This means that any hopes of a gold-standard will not even be feasible until AFTER the debt-default episodes have taken place with all insolvent economies. In other words, it's only after we write-off $10's of TRILLIONS of the fantasy-paper currently called "bonds" that we can BEGIN the transition back to a gold standard - and "good money".

The only other alternative is Hugo Salinas Price's proposal.
bobbbny
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written by robert berg, February 22, 2011
Yes Jeff, there will be "new currency". Just like Zimbabwe did, pegging it to the dollar.
The problem for us is what can WE peg it to without creating another fiat? We are beyond the tipping point. There is no way Bernanke can get around the demographics of our fiscal train wreck. There is certainly no way he can create jobs.
Can anyone think of a better solution than backing by PM's?
At a MUCH higher price, of course, since there is a mountain of paper to be backed by a very limited supply of PM.
No bankster pimps need reply to this question, since "printing more money" is not the correct answer.
Jeff Nielson
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written by Jeff Nielson, February 22, 2011
Subscriber, we can't afford to be dogmatic - even when it comes to the work of the great Von Mises.

Totally embracing the concept of "relative value" makes us vulnerable to the banksters' siren-song: that as long as people THINK that a paper-dollar is "good as gold" that it IS good as gold.

Only those who BALANCE the concepts of relative value and "absolute" or "intrinsic" value are IMMUNE to the insanity of bankers, since such people could NEVER accept the "relative value" of paper currencies as the SOLE means of evaluating them.

Null, similarly, I think you're getting too caught up in the dogmatic viewpoints of the "survivalists". This is NOT the year 1500. Our economies (and SOCIETIES) could not SURVIVE more than a few DAYS without "money", before a complete break-down.

Thus unless you're expecting some kind of "extinction event" regarding our species, the appropriate scenario to plan for is one where MONEY ("good money") is THE most important commodity.

No business can stay in operation with food or lumber or even barrels of oil, but they CAN continue to function with gold or silver.

Obviously if (when) our fiat currencies start to go to zero it's virtually CERTAIN that our governments will 'invent' a NEW paper currency - and try to use that. Very likely THAT could quickly go to zero too. Thus, even knowing that there will be SOME currency available is no consolation. We all must be holding "good money" (above anything else).

Bobbbny, I don't know if you noticed the news item that the NAR has been overstating U.S. "existing home sales" (for the last 3 years) by about 20%. There is about to be ANOTHER major upward revision to housing inventories - and that market was heading down the toilet even WITHOUT the banksters foreclosure fraud and the NAR's inventory fraud.
bobbbny
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written by robert berg, February 22, 2011
Good post & great comments all.
Yes subscriber, money still has value & can be readily exchanged for whatever we want. At the moment.
As people throughout the Middle East are finding out, this is one big Ponzi scheme & the only ones making out are the top 1%. It looks like it only takes a week to send them packing, the problem is the aftermath, as we shall see.
Jeff, your comment about the US recovery being 100% myth is spot on. Even by the governments own stats, we have paid a fortune for next to nothing. Unemployment is effectively 20%, inflation for basic goods is probably running 8%, and salaries have shrunk consistently for decades now.
The unemployment rate dropped to 9% last month because 500,000 people left the job force. 500,000.
Car sales are supposedly robust, but almost every major is offering 0 down, 0% financing, free maintainance.
Housing sales are non existent, and prices have fallen for 4 1/2 years.
Some recovery.
Did I mention the mountain of foreclosures waiting in the wings. We all know someone, or have heard of a friend of a friend who hasn't paid the mortgage in two years & is still living in the house. The banks are scared to death of becoming Caldwell-Bankers.
As we are discovering in Wisconsin, it is the working stiff who is being blamed, not the bankster crowd that is carrying out this monstrous theft.
We may wake up one morning & find that people are doing the "walk like an Egyptian".
Thats when the sheeple wake up & discover the great theft & the worthless paper in their wallets.
Null
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written by Null, February 22, 2011
I think it is useful to distinguish between "value" and "purchasing power". Money has no inherent value; gold is virtually worthless to society in terms of its true value. Money is a proxy for value. Money is a claim on the human labour (and ultimately, the ecological productivity) needed to take and transform tangible things from the natural world into other things which we find truly valuable -- food, energy, computers, or even art we hang on the wall. Gold's only "value" is as money, or as a token (proxy) for this value. Otherwise, without a proxy for value (money), then we must revert to a barter system which is not efficient.

So I suggest that no money has any true value, but what it does have is purchasing power (well, as we all know, silver has lots of real world value as an industrial commodity too....). Whether this money is in the form of FRN notes, nickels, or gold coins, ultimately is irrelevant. The thing with paper fiat money is that its proxy value for real wealth stems from its creation -- since all fiat money is created out of debt, that debt must ultimately be serviced by the labourers in society who took out that debt. When the debt backing the FRN's becomes too large for the labour force to service given the constraints imposed by the real world, the notes lose their legitimacy as proxies for wealth (money). Then they become Monopoly money. It is only a matter of time before the general population wakes up to this fact, and then the purchasing power of these notes will re-align with their true proxy value for real wealth -- zero, since the debt-to-GDP ratio backing those notes is no longer serviceable in the real world.
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written by subscriber, February 22, 2011
Thanks for the reply, Jeff. This takes me back to Austrian economics. "Value" is not absolute, but subjective and is determined in the exchange, and can vary greatly. The classic example: to a man lost in the Sahara Desert, which does he value more, a quart of water or an ounce of gold? Mises disagreed with Marx's labor theory of value, since e.g. I could spend a lot of labor creating a painting that no one likes and no one will purchase.

Building on that, Value can change rapidly, since it is subjectively determined. Today, people will still deliver silver to me for less than FRN 35/oz. The FRN is still a useful means of exchange, but as you say, that could change rapidly. Therefore, it is not a good store of value. Gold and silver are much more stable in terms of value, tho still not absolute.

What fascinates me is that we seem to have a three tier system, where the FRN means different things to different people, depending on their position in society. Let's all act like the Superclass, and treat our FRNs as a means to acquire true wealth, rather than treating them as a store of value!
Jeff Nielson
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written by Jeff Nielson, February 22, 2011
Subscriber, your observations illustrate the danger of using the word "value" in respect to the bankers' fiat currencies.

We must CAREFULLY distinguish between "relative value" and "absolute value". In "absolute" terms (i.e. intrinsic value or economic fundamentals) the dollar (and several other fiat currencies) are ALREADY completely worthless.

Yes, in RELATIVE terms dollars still have "value", much like TULIPS could be worth a fortune in Holland 500 years ago.

What is MOST important is that like any/all deadbeats, the fate of the U.S. economy (i.e. the dollar, the bond market, and the economy as a whole) rests totally in the hands of U.S. creditors. The dollar will be 100% worthless the day these creditors DECIDE it is worthless.

That day will occur the MOMENT that the "damage" caused by the dollar's continued existence (i.e. runaway global inflation) is greater than the damage caused by ENDING the dollar's existence.

The differential here is now SMALL, and shrinking rapidly - meaning we could (literally) see the dollar "sterilized" from the global economy (and deemed worthless) TOMORROW.
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written by subscriber, February 22, 2011
No doubt this has been covered elsewhere on the site at other times, but I'd like to go into the idea of worthless money a little further. First, I think that this worthless money still has value, because it can be and is being used to buy up the productive assets of the earth. I can write a check for gold or silver coins, and people will still deliver them to me wrapped up in a box! Look at China's spending spree on resources, look at the continuing consolidation of industries into fewer and larger entities. The elite (Superclass are the ones who get this money for 0%, and the ones who are tightening their grip on the world's assets. In their world, money is only a means to an end (direct ownership of productive assets, the true wealth). It is only the deluded middle class who still believe that a bank balance or a number on a 401(k) statement is real wealth. But in reality, those forms of "wealth" are evaporating like the morning dew. The poor, on the other hand, have a very different experience: money is hard to come by, prices are increasing beyond their ability to pay, and credit card interest rates are exorbitant.

The cruelty is staggering: the wealthier you become, the more money you can be given and the lower the interest rate. The poorer you are, the harder you work for your money, the less it buys, and the more you pay in interest.
Jeff Nielson
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written by Jeff Nielson, February 22, 2011
Paxjds, "poker" is a good metaphor for all the scheming going on since it is based upon bluffing and HIDING THE TRUTH from the other "players" in the game.

Sadly, when BULLIES "play poker" the result is predictable: they "raise" again and again and again - despite holding a losing hand, as they are too arrogant to "fold", and wait to acquire some "good cards".

What this means for us is a devastating aftermath from this "poker game" - as EVERYONE is wiped-out. The "silver lining" here is that the worse these periods of revolution/transition are the greater the percentage of ultra-wealthy parasites who are "exterminated"...
paxjds
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written by david sites, February 22, 2011
Jeff, as you said, the Wall Street Banksters and the US econonomy are bankrupt. The US Government, most states, and quite a few local governments are all technically bankrupt. Now they are all allowed to mark to fantasy their debts to show on their books the greatest deception that they are in the 'black'.
As we look around, Japan, Europe, and some third world countries are also in the same situation. Just like in high stakes poker, the players with money in the bank are afraid to "Call" the losing hands and force to decades old game to end. The end will cost the winners in the poker game to actually and finally "lose" all their foreign reserves as those fiat currencies are worthless.
The whole world loses in the poker game. All the big players know if they come out with new Fiat currencies, they will be just as Worthless as the Yen, dollar, and Euro are. Peasants around the world know this, including all the six pack Joe's. Since they cannot agree on new currencies back by commodities such as gold, silver, oil, and coal; they keep playing their high stakes poker game hoping for a different outcome.
The finnancial 'Rothchild's' around the world hopefully will have to eat their losses while new currencies backed by Commodities return to the world stage to demonstrate Value, Worth, Honesty, and Integaty. To the little boy bullies on the world stage, take your worthless paper and go have a marsh mellow roast with your worthless fiat paper money.
Only when the peoples of the world refuse to buy and sell with these worthless currencies will they truly be worthless and bankrupt.

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